The Failed Bus Journey from James Bond Island
We bussed five and a half hours from Singapore to KL and four more from Hat Yai to Krabi without trouble. The ride that unhinged us took only an hour. What would you have done differently?
I would advise, for a start, not telling the travel agent at Kata Beach exactly what you’re looking for, or in other words making it incredibly easy to lie for a quick sale.
She said we’d be picked up at 8:30 in the morning (actually 7am); that the transfer to the pier would take fifteen to twenty minutes (a little over an hour); that the boat ride from the pier to the island was a similar length (ditto); and that the swim after lunch – the one bit of active play which would allow the kids to kick off all the energy they’d have to control for the rest of the day – would be a solid hour or maybe more (we got about twenty minutes in total, of which our kids used much less, on account of one staff member’s helpful response to P’s routine enquiry about jellyfish).
Admittedly, she didn’t lie to me about the deafening on-board party music consisting mostly of swear words – because I didn’t ask about that. I naively assumed we’d be listening to the soothing song of a diesel engine laboriously churning the water.
The point is our trip to “James Bond Island” in Phang Nga Bay was a lot less child-friendly than we’d been led to believe.
Skip to my review on Trip Advisor for the short version where I don’t ask for your advice on how to handle awkward and frustrating situations with strangers.
Here’s how it went down.
It was quarter past five in the afternoon – forty-five minutes later than the woman had told us we’d be safely back at our hotel, and a challenging time of day for young kids under the best circumstances – on a day which, between the early starts, loud music, prolonged proximity to strangers, a lost favourite-ever shoe, and an almost total lack of exercise, could not easily be categorised under “best circumstances”.
Somehow, we with the two young children had not managed to beat the group of twenty-something backpackers down the pier to the bus, and now we stood at its door looking awkwardly at the way they’d spread themselves around leaving only a smattering of isolated seats. We figured they’d move around if we waited patiently enough. It’s what would happen in Singapore, where the teenagers will jump out of their seats on the MRT when I approach with my six-year-old, even though that is, frankly, ridiculous.
The pause lengthened. There was some awkward mumbling between Æ and the driver, after which one young man got out and transferred to the front so one of us could at least be in the same general area as our children, if not actually next to either. And that was that. We strapped them in and I took the rear-most seat in order to keep a watch from behind, while Æ rode shotgun. It seemed like the best we could do.
So of course the first thing that happened was T dropped her toy on the floor and started whimpering for it.
“What’s up, my dear?” I asked, leaning forwards as far as I could.
“I’ve dropped my toy!” she wailed.
“Oh no. Well I can’t really reach it from here…” I glanced at the guy sitting next to her but he was staring straight ahead, lost in his own world. “You might have to hold on til we get back to the hotel. Don’t worry,” I added soothingly, “it’s not going anywhere and we won’t leave without it. Why don’t we sing a song? C’mon! Which song shall we sing?!”
But she didn’t launch into song. Instead, she reiterated her point about the toy having fallen down and I had to have the same conversation again. And then again. By the fourth time around there was an edge to both our voices, as if things were on their way south, and I was starting to wonder how much time I’d spend unstrapping and crawling around the bus over the course of the next hour and how many future arguments it’d cost me about wearing seat belts if I went down the path of moving forward to retrieve the toy myself when a small miracle occurred: big brother P came swooping to the rescue, turning in his seat and distracting his little sister with a silly noise and a funny face. She forgot about the toy and started giggling instead.
I didn’t breathe too big a sigh of relief, though: one crisis had been averted but it wasn’t what you’d call a controlled situation, and sure enough, the volume levels rose quickly. But when I caught P’s eye and gave him the pipe-down signal, he paused and tensed, and I realised I had a tough decision to make.
It was late afternoon. The kids were overtired, frazzled, under-exercised, out of their familiar environment, anxious about having to sit next to strangers, getting hungry, and thoroughly sick of having their tethers yanked all day. And they were giggling – a little loudly, yes, but essentially just giggling. It was the kind of noise I’ve stomped on in public trains and buses, but which wouldn’t bother me as a driver of a private vehicle carrying nobody but our family.
I weighed my options. They were almost certain to settle down in about ten or fifteen minutes. That is, if I didn’t escalate matters by screeching ineffectively at them from the rear of the bus, thus pitting them against me in a battle of wills for which I had, from my current position, very few weapons.
So I decided on a tactical retreat – a sort of ceasefire – which I signalled by tempering my body language a little, in response to which P relaxed and made a new funny face and weird noise. But he kept half an eye on me. As they got louder, I leaned forward, and he checked himself slightly, at which I leaned back. Thus we went for five minutes or so. I thought it was a workable truce under the circumstances. Of course, not everybody agreed.
After five minutes a young woman asked them, in an exasperated tone, to lower their voices. I took the opportunity to lean forward and tap her travelling companion on the shoulder. (You remember him – he was the one in the seat next to T, the one who could have retrieved her dropped toy, but didn’t.)
“Would you like to swap places so I can take care of them?” I asked. He looked away huffily without replying, and the woman turned to speak to me.
“They’re too loud for this enclosed space,” she said.
So I tried again, but testily this time. “Do you want to swap seats so I can look after them?” I asked her.
“No! I don’t!” she replied. “I just want them to be quiet!”
“Well I can’t do much about that from back here,” I said bluntly.
“You could ask them to stop!”
Because that’s obviously how it works. You can give an overtired, frazzled and hungry kindergarten child a verbal instruction from several rows away in a moving bus that they know full well you’re not in control of and they will obey. They won’t at all think, “Oh! this is a more interesting way to vent my whole day’s frustrations and alleviate my boredom than any of my currently-available options! What’s she going to do, anyway (within the next hour, that is)?” Nor will they completely unthinkingly throw a total strop regardless of consequences because their self-control is fading in and out; hanging tenuously; easily severed and in need of constant, hands-on repair – which is why you have to be there. As in right there.
I got through my first sentence of explanation before the male half of the duo started talking to me about showing respect and consideration for others, which struck me as odd because that was actually kind of my point, and the whole thing might have blown into an argument if the second miracle hadn’t occurred.
P’s self-control faded back in. Loudly and clearly, he called back to me: “Mum! Why don’t we use your list of fifty ways to keep kids quietly entertained in the car?”
I mentally awarded him an ice-cream. “I’d love to, P,” I called back, “but this is what I’m trying to explain. There’re a lot of things I could do, but not while we’re all scattered about the bus like this.”
“What?” he yelled, as if to underline my point. Icecream with chocolate, I thought, and took my volume up a notch.
“I SAID YOU’RE TOO FAR AWAY!”
“OH!” he shouted back. “BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CD GAME? I’LL HUM A TUNE AND YOU GUESS IT. READY?”
And that was it – I just had to laugh. All these adults, and the only one helping out was the six year old. He didn’t know enough to understand that a hum wouldn’t travel where a raised voice couldn’t reach, yet he was adding more than a busload of young men and women four or more times his age, most of whom probably had university degrees.
“OH, P,” I called back, “I JUST CAN’T HEAR YOUR HUMMING.”
“I’LL SING MORE LOUDLY THEN. DA DA DA DA DA DA DAAA!”
“IT’S SPACE ODDITY BY DAVID BOWIE, P, BUT I DON’T THINK IT’S MUCH QUIETER THAN WHAT YOU GUYS WERE DOING BEFORE.”
“THAT’S NOT LOUD!” And I don’t know what’s shoutier than caps lock, but he started singing in it to prove his point, and of course T had to join him and now it wasn’t I-could-ignore-this giggling but unbearably-loud grunting, and I was busy retracting my unarticulated promise of chocolate and wondering how I could reel them back from this mess when Æ, sitting in the front seat, turned and used his booming Dad Voice.
“BOTH OF YOU NEED TO PIPE DOWN. THINK OF SOMETHING QUIET TO DO.” And then we both thought, oh dear, that’s torn it, and we waited tensely for the whole world to fall apart.
Six year olds are tricky creatures – they’re smart. Calculating, sometimes. Chastened, embarrassed, and thoroughly fed up, P’s mood turned in a heartbeat and he started computing his revenge. To the casual observer it might have looked, at first, as if Æ’s instruction had worked, but all I saw from the back seat was air thickening and wheels turning. “Quiet eh?” he was thinking. “I’ll show you quiet…”
“Let’s have a singalong!” I suggested brightly, and also desperately. But in the aftermath of the Space Oddity disaster, both kids were even less willing to sing than they had been the first five times I’d suggested it. “Heads And Shoulders, anyone?” I started performing it like an idiot, but nobody joined in. “Not that one? How about If You’re Happy And You Know It?”
“P’s pointing at me!” T said suddenly.
“Yes, well he shouldn’t be doing that, but please ignore him, he only wants your reaction. C’mon, let’s sing Happy And You Know It instead.” But she didn’t – she lunged forward, waving her arms and screeching.
“T tried to hit me!” said P, triumphantly, from approximately half a metre beyond the fullest extent of her reach.
“You both need to cut it out. Now. Sing. With. Me.”
“No! P’s pointing again!” T wailed, and I thought, oh yes, thanks a lot everybody, this is much better than loud giggling, and T started growling and banging her fists together and kicking the back of the seat in front, and I thought, fantastic, she’s going to blow, what can I do? What can I do quickly?
So I did that thing that’s going to cost me an argument every time we take a car for the indefinite future. I unstrapped myself in the moving vehicle and scooted forward, wedging in beside Mr Consideration And Respect (who remained safely strapped and totally inert), so I could place one hand on T’s shoulder and cup her cheek in the other, turning her face towards me. And as P pointed (the wavy point now – twice as deadly) and levied loud accusations and calls for justice I whispered to her, “T: I guessed P’s song before – now it’s your turn to sing. What do you want to sing?”
“I DON’T WANT TO SING!” she screeched.
“What about that one from Frozen – I think that’s your favourite, isn’t it? How does it start?”
“HE’S STILL POINTING AT ME!”
“But look at me, T, look at me.” I turned her face gently again and shielded her eyes, using my hands as blinkers. “The snow glows.. the snow glows… what is it?”
“The snow glows white on the mountain tonight STOP POINTING P! HE’S POINTING!”
“Look at me, T, that’s it,” I turned her head a little further and sung softly, bent down to her level, eyes locked. “The snow glows white on the mountain tonight… What’s the next line?” She was listening. “The snow glows white on the mountain tonight… ”
“Not a footprint to be seen…” She was singing now, too – progress. But her eyes flicked backed again towards her brother.
“Look here and sing, T. Not a footprint to be seen…?” I stroked her hair and grinned encouragingly.
“A kingdom of isolation, and it looks like I’m the queen.” She paused for a moment, her face expressing the anguish of a deep abandonment, so I popped an imaginary crown on her head, and she smiled.
“What’s the next line?”
With a great deal more gusto, she continued: “The wind is howling like this swirling storm inside…”
And we’d turned it – P stopped fighting, and you have to close your eyes now and imagine the two of them looking at each other across the seats, clasping their hands theatrically to their chests like twin Elsas, and singing the next line together, lingering plaintively on the last note:
They crescendoed together towards the chorus – giving it the full super-caps-lock treatment in all its glory. And me – I scuttled to my seat, despositing T’s dropped toy on her lap as I went, and sat back to listen.
It’s funny how some distance makes everything seem small. Only a few kilometres after they finished their duet we arrived at our first drop-off point, and I was able to swap the seats around so we could sit next to each other. And once we were sitting together, everyone got on just fine – just as we’d managed on our five-and-a-half-hour bus trip from Singapore to KL, and our four-hour trip from Hat Yai to Krabi.
Lessons To Learn
It would have been better if I’d explained at the outset that kindergarteners don’t usually go well if seated next to strangers on a bus for an hour straight, especially at five or six in the evening after an unexpectedly long and intense day, when we’d completely run out of food on account of breakfast being much shorter and everything else being much longer than we’d originally been told when we’d specifically asked for a detailed account of timings – and especially if those strangers they’re sitting next to have no desire whatsoever to interact with the children, such as (for example) by fishing a dropped toy off the floor.
The only trouble is – and here’s where you come in – I really need a script for that conversation, so I don’t say the first sarcastic thing that pops into my head after a whole day of working intensely to keep two young children in check on a crowded boat booming with party music.
So how would you put it if you rocked up to find that a busload of people you’d been travelling with all day and were (not to belabour the point) therefore well aware that you had young children along had seated themselves so your young children were forced to sit alone for a whole hour?
What (exactly) do you think I should have said? What would you have done differently?
The post The Failed Bus Ride From James Bond Island appeared first at Journeys of the Fabulist.
I’m not gonna act holy to say that I mind other people’s business when I’m in public. The best I can say is that I don’t do anything to bother others, and be in my behavior. Good thing I don’t drink anymore either. You really opened my eyes to the drawbacks of people who travel with kids.
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Yeah, you just have to do your best, and show a little tolerance, and when it all fails, think about how to try better next time.
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I actually read this the day you posted it and got carried away frantically packing for a last-minute trip. I’ve been trying to think about what you could’ve done differently, and I’m not coming up with much. As others have said, I am impressed that you were so polite under the circumstances. And also flabbergasted that someone would choose to sit with a child that was not their own.. and then complain. Probably the only thing you could’ve done was address the situation before the bus departed, but I think I would’ve been too shocked that no one else seemed to think that was a good idea. You seriously have the best games and distractions that don’t require anything except a decent imagination.
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Yes, we had definitely practised up a few games by that point! I sort of felt like complaining that they weren’t keeping the kids quiet enough, to be honest (but that would just have started a fight). I think if I’m in the situation again I’ll go with Sue’s suggestion of trying to use a bit of light humour to point out that it might be best if we sit together. Explain that I only have one sick bag and I think I might have misread the instructions for that headlice treatment…
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Ohhh that is GOOD.. must remember that idea!
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Yes, and failing that – Summer’s idea of acknowledging their feelings for a good long stretch until they finally start to see the situation from everyone else’s point of view.
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I just read all the comments, great group of followers you have my dear!
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They’re keepers 🙂
Look, I’m sure they’re perfectly normal people in lots of ways and we just happened to miss each other completely on this occasion (and then got railroaded onto our own tracks). It does seem obvious to me that young kids are best seated next to their parents and it’s going to be hard to control their behaviour if they’re not, but you know. We’re all ignorant about something.
If I’d been able to explain things better up front I’m sure it would have been different – I was caught off guard at needing to. Young people in Australia aren’t any better (they are definitely better in Singapore).
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I enjoyed this IMMENSELY from start to finnish. I congratulate you on your calm and proper decorum to senselessly rude adults. I would not have hesitated to take this trip with young children when I was young, the stuff of memories. As I get older I am frequently impatient but try to remember that we are all humans. Those rude selfish people either never had children or have forgotten compassion. Your photos are great and I especially enjoyed the cave 🙂 Nice work, I am proud of you for keeping your cool. I do not think I would have.
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Bronwyn, you are the bravest, most patient person I know!!! Not sure I would have been as patient with those louts! I was wishing T had puked all over them!! 😀
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Well it’s definitely been trained into me through my job. A bit of puke would certainly have put a new spin on the situation, though I’m not sure my nose would have agreed it was worth it by the end of the ride! 🙂
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I think you’re right that speaking directly to people at the beginning would have been the easiest solution. Having said that, I would have been too flabbergasted at the situation to collect myself and do anything about it if it happened to me. It would have felt beyond awkward.
I also think you’re right when you say they were clueless and perhaps thought you shouldn’t have taken children on the tour. Having said that, it’s bizarre that someone should complain directly to you and then refuse to be part of the solution. What was the point in that? I guess some people have a desperate need to express their feelings.
It reminds me of some parenting advice I was given, that for best outcomes, you must first acknowledge how upset a child is about whatever is upsetting them, and then you can tell them the bad news e.g. “Are you really frustrated that Sam is playing with your car?” Child gives you a puppy dog face/expression of intense rage/large sigh of exasperation. “I know sweetie, it can be tricky.” Give hugs, patiently listen at length to how upset they are. “You know how to share though, so find something else to play with and you can have a turn later.” So perhaps that was what was necessary, since she was acting like a child, expecting other people to solve her problems like magic. “I know you’re really frustrated about riding on a bus next to children…
I’m glad overall the day went well for you and I think you handled the bus situation better than most.
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Well I wouldn’t really recommend the tour for children that age, in hindsight! Babes in arms or primary school and above would be ok, but not toddlers/preschoolers.
Yes, it was just awkwardness at the start but really it turned out to be more awkward later so it would have been worth getting it over and done with. Things to remember when I feel awkward next time.
I did think it was a bit bizarre that they refused to be part of the solution when they became unhappy with the situation and had a simple and painless solution presented to them but actually you’ve said something really good there about sitting and acknowledging their “feelings” before jumping to the solution because that might certainly have worked.
It was as if they just got into this mindset where they just weren’t open to solutions. Perhaps that technique would have opened them up to actually solving the problem instead of just kind of moaning about it.
These are the techniques we read about in parenting books but Æ says they’re teaching the exact same thing in management courses so not as silly to use them on adults as it sounds 🙂
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Bronwyn, hats off to you! You behave totally the kind of yummy mummy we all know and hard to be one. Can’t believe such patience with the unbelievably weird people on the bus. You didn’t even said a sarcastic word. Your kids are so well-behaved I must praise. I like the way you handle the kids so well. Amazing! I can’t find a single fault in whatever you said or did. I would have blasted some sarcasm out, and then seriously regret as a bad example to my children. Not too sure what I would do if people who do not like children still want to sit beside them. These people must not forget this experience when they are parents themselves. Shame on them!
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Well I wouldn’t say the kids are generally “so well-behaved”. They were having a good day. Not that they’re horrible children, either, but as Æ said afterwards, what would everyone have done if they’d been having a bad day? Or even a normal one?
I do hope one day those guys are looking after kids on a bus and can look back and cringe. But next time I’ll try to use a few of the suggestions to be a bit more assertive up front and hopefully avoid any problems. I’m sure once the situation was laid out the obvious solution would have been obvious to everyone.
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Unbelievable. I can’t imagine anyone thinking it would work out well to sit children away from their parents. I just can’t imagine.
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Yes, it seems obvious to me. But then I can see it happening in, say, Australia as well. Some people really just don’t have anything much to do with younger children growing up. You have to have younger siblings or extended family or an integrated community and sadly that’s often lacking.
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Reminds me of when we were in Ibiza. The Germans must have boarded the bus the night before so they could sit at the front. Only seats at the back. Within minutes of travelling the winding road, Matt threw up everywhere. After clean up, we were at the front.
As for travel in Thailand, we used to visit Phi Phi beginning in 1993. They still sell the trip as isolated and not the zoo it is. Wanting to make Money and the need to tell you what you want to hear was so frustrating. Shame about your trip.
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Ha! Yes, definitely a reason to let some people have certain seats. I’m going to try not to imagine that vomit all over the back of that bus.
And the tour operators – yes, very frustrating. I understand they want to make money and it’s very competitive but it seems like they still could have made their dollars by offering us something more suitable. The guy in Krabi still did ok out of the private taxi tour he organised for us I’m pretty sure (maybe even better). He had the willingness and imagination to find the win-win solution.
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Oh I would have just thrown my kids over the windows to make the snotty and inconsiderate people happy! Ugh! I hate people! That happens here too! When we commute, people don’t seem to care that you are holding a toddler in your arms and holding the other one’s hand so he doesn’t get left behind, and the jeepney is already moving so there is a great chance that you and your kids can fall off, you would think that people will help and move so you can have the seat closest to where you’re standing, but no, they look away and pretend they didn’t see the frustration in your face. Sometimes I ask with a BOSSY tone REQUESTING that they move, it usually works, if it doesn’t, I move along and purposely step on their toes! Hahaha Kidding (or not). Thankfully, there are kind hearts out there. But if I happen to be surrounded by a**holes, I just tell myself that the world does not revolve around me and that nobody HAS to make my life easier. Makes you wish for a kinder humanity really. I mean, we would do the same, why won’t they? Pffft.
So sorry you had to go through that!
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That’s the thing I couldn’t understand though in this circumstance. If it’s a matter of holding a door open – sure, that’s nice and everything, but the world doesn’t revolve around my family. People have to make a personal sacrifice for my benefit in that situation and some do, some don’t.
But in this circumstance I was actually trying to take care of my kids myself instead of relying on others to provide free baby sitting and/or inflicting the consequences of a lack of supervision upon them – so kind of the opposite of expecting the world to revolve around my family.
I mean, I’d very much like to sit at the back of the bus and do nothing but make polite requests about volume, too. The reason I wanted them to move wasn’t for my benefit. I was the one offering to make the sacrifice for everyone else’s comfort. You know what I mean? My life would actually be easier if I could pop the kids up front and sit back with my earphones in or my nose in a book!
So this is why I think if we’d explained it more clearly at the outset things would have been different.
But I do hope people help you out on the jeepney a bit more, too.
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Hey, if you don’t like children and refuse to move to let a parent be near thier young children, choosing to stay seated next to them, I’d say they deserved what they got. You were nice, I’d likely let them, maybe even encouraged them, to sing at the top of thier lungs until someone let me have a seat next to them.
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Yeah the thought that they’d asked for it did cross my mind. Yes, I understand that they preferred that seat for whatever reason, maybe they wanted to sit next to their friends, etc, but you can’t have it both ways. Either you let the kids be properly supervised or you keep your precious seat and this is the price you pay.
I have to think they didn’t quite grasp the practicalities of the situation. I feel like if I’d explained it better at the beginning they’d have seen the light and moved around. I’m just used to an environment where people are a lot more aware when it comes to the needs of young kids.
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Oh my gosh. My anxiety escalates quite quickly reading this. Those people! The trip! The jellyfish!
I’m mortified that the couple had absolutely no empathy. Seriously, picking up a toy does not require the flexibility of a gymnast. Refusal to swap seats too! It would have made it easier for THEM and resulted in
Peace and quite so much quicker.
I think your kids are perfect! They tried to utilise the strategies you had taught them, they even reminded you of them as well. Top kids. The couple were lucky none if them had car sickness!!
So what was the silver lining on your trip?
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The canoe part was definitely the highlight – loved that. So yes, overall it wasn’t a horrible day or anything but I do think it was a bit much and with hindsight I probably wouldn’t do it again with kids this age. I’d certainly say think twice with toddlers.
There was a crawling baby on board (same boat, different bus) and the parents were on their toes but probably no more than usual and at least that one napped. Any more mobile though and I think you’d want to leave it a few years.
And our kids – well, I won’t say they’re perfect, but they were actually having a pretty good day all things considered. On a bad day things would not have gone so well!
I don’t know that the guy even registered the toy, to be honest. I suspect it wasn’t really a refusal as such, more just thoughtlessness/being lost in his own thoughts. I have to assume that someone would have swapped seats if we’d been clearer at the start – it just doesn’t make sense for anyone otherwise. The huffiness was just unnecessary to me, though.
We didn’t see too many jellyfish 🙂
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Ahhhh this sounds like a nightmare. Party boat + long bus ride tour of hell! What is with those backpackers? Self absorbed Gen Y’s I imagine. The youth of today! I sound like a cranky old woman now 🙂 As self absorbed and dumb as I was as a backpacker, I would’ve made sure seats were offered. How infuriating. If I were in that situation, I know my husband would have fired up. In the meantime, just think about travel karma, here’s hoping one day they will get that treatment in return 🙂
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Just lost in their own worlds, I think. I guess it was the end of a long day for everyone.
I was thinking back afterwards as to what I would have done before kids, and I can definitely name several specific instances in which I offered to swap around for people travelling with young kids. Then again, I can’t name the times I sat blissfully unaware because I was too busy with my own stuff… so I don’t claim to have been perfect. At least I didn’t pipe up and start talking to parents about respect after having been asked to swap around!
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Ayeyaya. As entertaining as this was, it was harrowing and now I’m tired. LOL. I’m just glad bro came to the rescue. =) That’s one beautiful shot of the narrow escape. I don’t think I could ever handle a frustrating situation better than you. I’m plain vocal. I will simply remind and ask adults who should know better to – in so many words – know better, if my son is affected in a way he shouldn’t be.
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You know I think that might have been the better approach. Just come right out and say it up front and get it over with a minimum of fuss.
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After some more thought, I knew exactly what I’d do in any such situation. If the people who really should be understanding are not, I would LOUDLY ask those who are near who would be willing to accommodate our family…until we were accommodated.
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I think next time I’ll take a leaf out of that book. Although I still like Sue’s suggestion where you try to make a joke out of it by offering sick bags to the people sitting next to the kids “just in case” as you make your request.
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Your patience is amazing Bronwyn. There were a number of thigs the operator could have done to avoid a poor customer experience such as you had. You’ve mentioned a few, and there is one more that i see done regularly on transit syastems. The buses here are all marked with a blue strip along the first 4 or 5 rows that designates it for the diasbled or elderly or those travelling with children or baby carriages. Anyone else is free to sit there but if any of the afore mentioned come along – they get first priority. As far as what you could have done – I think you went above and beyond in trying to ameliorate the situation. It is so unbelievable that the teens would not move. Ignorant. Inconsiderate. Stupid. I believe in Karma, and I suspect they have some hard times coming if they maintain that attitude.
Great post and pictures Bronwyn – thanks as always.
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Yes, they were not all about the customer experience. Actually, I should hasten to point out here that the boat crew were good, though – it was really just the driver of the transfer bus we had problems with, and the tour agent.
It was a private mini bus so not sure how likely they are to install the priority seating system – though it’s a good one.
At least being the younger generation, there’s a good chance karma will bite them more or less directly, since a lot of people end up having children and most children of that age wouldn’t have done much better! Seems like parenting in general might come as a shock to them. And if not they’ve got a lifetime of ignorantly complaining about perfectly normal families to come and carrying that level of annoyance around won’t be fun, either.
In the meantime, I’m definitely going to practice my best “are you sure because I only have one vomit bag left” line.
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I think your kids were remarkably well behaved considering the circumstances!
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Yeah, I actually thought they held up pretty well, considering. Like Æ said afterwards – imagine if it had been one of their bad days!
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Oh it sounds so familiar! Can I join you in a hate rant against all shonky travel agents?
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Yes, definitely if it had been as described we would have had no problem. And if it had been accurately described I’d have thought twice – but then she could have sold me something for the same price so I’m not sure why she chose to go that route.
The guy in Krabi offered us a choice of group or private tour and was very open about how things usually ran – result was we had a great day out (by taxi) and so did all the other travellers in the region (or if they didn’t at least it was nothing to do with us).
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How rude can people be?!!!! Honestly, nobody swapped seats?! How cant hat be? I am chocked and appaled. Not even after all the “hints”? You did soooo well! I don’t know if I could have been that patient (with the other passangers, that is. Kids are kids, they need to behave, yes, but they are still learning and there are extreme situations like this where they should not be expected to do better than adults, so them I might have been ok with!)
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Well I think the hints initially were too vague. Needed a clearer request up front. (Then down the line I think they were just too far in to their huff to cede to requests for changes of seat.)
There are some people who just really don’t know anything much about kids before they have their own and need to have it spelled out very patiently and clearly at the beginning.
As for me – definitely something I’ve learnt as a vet – some clients don’t cope well with intense situations. Or I’m just passive-aggressive by nature, or both 🙂 .
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You are probably right in what happened there but I don’t really think one needs to know much about kids, only to have descent manners and to use common sense… Ah well, dwelling on it afterwards doesn’t make things better. But I do admire your ability to stay diplomatic in the situation and just do the best you can, really the best way to deal with it in the long run!
Since I am about to fly alone with the kids soon this has been a good reminder for me on why I strive to be early when travelling with children (Me, who e.g. used to think arriving at the gate in the last minute is the best strategy to board a plane because I could then avoid the queueing and walk straight to my seat. Guess how many times I also missed the flight because the gate was closed a minute ago…;) ). But with kids I rather have more time and if I have too much of it, there is usually some option for them to run off some energy too. So, thanks to you, I’ll book another hotel night instead of trying to make it directly… 🙂
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Definitely good to leave some extra time with kids. You never know what they’ll do at the last moment!
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I was so mad reading this – I think what you did wrong is you should have slapped them 😉 Ok, perhaps not, but I would have asked people to move from the beginning. Not sure exactly what I would say, but my kids are that bit younger and there is no way I could leave them alone, so I probably would have said something desperate to try and stop them ending up on my lap. I guess I would like to think that most people would move in that situation, although those people sound like such wankers that I dont think they would have moved regardless of what you said. I hate how dumb some people are.
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Yeah, I really think we should have been more clear from the beginning. I remain optimistic that it would have worked – never attribute to malice what you can attribute to almost-unbelievably-deep ignorance and all that. Perhaps it would have been more obvious to them with younger (or at least shorter) kids.
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Oh my goodness, I am embarrassed for those people that wouldn’t move for a woman wanting to sit next to her children. That is the ultimate selfishness and rudeness in my book. I am so bummed that it was so horrible for you guys… I will definitely not be going on that trip any time soon. 😦
Btw… You are awesome, I think I may have punched those people in the face. Your grace and patience with such obvious a$$h@les was very impressive.
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Well, it was short-lived – can’t make too much of it in the context of the whole holiday, but I did want to know what others would have done. Not sure I’ll be going with “punch them in the face”. 🙂
Like I said to Blackberry Boys – long years of customer service dealing with clients in crisis has taught me a thing or two about patience (and/or passive aggressiveness).
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Haha. I think I probably wouldn’t resort to real violence either, I would think it and then use my words. 🙂
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🙂
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What a bunch of pricks! I guess I would have asked the driver to try to help me out at the start. Or I would have loudly turned to different people and ask them to move while also willing my youngest to cry loudly about having to sit next to a stranger. If that didn’t work, maybe I’d talk about my eldest’s bad motion sickness, give the stranger a bag and ask him/her to help her when she starts puking.
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Combination of techniques!
The driver wasn’t the most helpful driver on the planet (in the comment to Curt I explained a few things that had happened on the trip over in the morning) – that was definitely one of the problems. A switched-on tour operator would have managed everyone to avoid the problem from the outset, or at least helped out better when the problem was raised.
Definitely focussing on specific people at the outset would be better – a very good point. I think by the time everything was happening people were a lot less willing to listen (also, we were moving along the road so just logistically).
Or the motion sickness technique 🙂
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Congratulations! You have been nominated for the “Very Inspiring Blogger Award!” Please see: http://wp.me/p3fJ4S-3QG Best, Cate
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Thanks! Honoured to have been recommended.
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Poor young man – obviously scarred by a childhood of picking up toys for younger siblings! Not my initial reaction of course – but why not grab the chance to change seats when directly offered?! It would seem no Scout/Guide/School bus trip/humour experience for them to call on!
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Haha! Maybe.
Yes, didn’t ask about these guys’ guiding/scouting experience but suspect if they had some they never made PL. Looking after and directing the younger kids doesn’t seem their forte.
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Oh my lord 🙂 I have a 6 year old daughter as well who goes ballistic when her brother looks or points at her (at a certain time of the day). That bus trip, oh my. If it was me, I probably would have engaged the only person with any power on the bus (the driver) and asked him to move some people around so that you could have all sat together.
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I really think a good tour bus driver would organise people as they get on the bus. This guy was sort of phoning it in (see also my response to Curt). He definitely wasn’t helpful.
Still not sure what the thing is with the pointing. I think I remember having similar arguments with my sisters but I can’t for the life of me remember why.
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Under the best of circumstances it can be a challenge traveling with young ones… and you are good at it. Where did the backpackers come from? I hope it wasn’t the US. 🙂 Their rudeness was incredible. I don’t know what I would have said to them: something like “You can make a good decision or a bad decision. Good decision and I’ll be sitting next to my children and we’ll sing quietly. Bad decision and you will have a screaming child sitting next to you for the next hour.” They would have gone for the screaming kid, but maybe it would have been worth it. 🙂 My real thoughts aren’t printable. –Curt
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I’ve deliberately chosen not to mention any nationalities. 🙂 I’ve met considerate people from all corners and wouldn’t want to shame anyone by tarring them with the same brush.
Not sure I could be as forceful as you – though I don’t say I’d blame anyone for taking that approach. I do think most people missed the initial conversation between Æ and the driver and that they really just didn’t think the kids needed any closer attention. I feel there’s something we could have said at the start to make it more clear and resolve it politely.
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You are a gentle soul, Bronwyn. So I bite my tongue. And I do know that stereotyping is wrong. Being a backpacker, I feel guilty enough. 🙂 And it is true that the driver might have helped. –Curt
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Well I’m a backpacker too – no guilt intended 🙂
The driver wasn’t especially helpful over the course of the whole day. In my trip advisor review I went over the bit where he failed to identify himself when he turned up at the lobby of our hotel and then went mad at us for making people late (finally he approached the desk staff and they said oh, that would be those guys over there). I almost felt half bad about it until we had problems with the next people’s pick up as well (he also had an argument with seating over the last pickup on the way there in the morning).
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I think you held it together well. The other travelers should have shown you a little compassion. They would have seen you were frazzled and would have done anything to keep your kids happy and other passengers at peace.
But I think some people love to occupy that haught overlook, swinging their legs and looking down on you with disapproval. They go through life from that position. If it wasn’t you or your kids it would be some other poor unfortunate…
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I would have thought letting the parents babysit their own kids so everyone could have a peaceful journey was the pragmatic solution.
As I just said to Sue, above, though I don’t think they did it deliberately – I think they really didn’t get it. I don’t think they heard the mumblings about seat arrangements at the start and then it just got too late in the game for them to back down and/or they really are clueless about how to handle children under those circumstances and think that asking them nicely to be quiet from across the bus would have been a potentially successful approach.
And of course they didn’t know anything about the interaction with the tour operator. Maybe they were annoyed at us for even being there, I don’t know.
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What is wrong with those people that they couldn’t accommodate a slight move? One can only hope they’ll be “gifted” with high maintenance children and will someday ruefully remember this bus ride. That’s about as aggressive as I get, unfortunately, so I have no real suggestions for you. I probably would have done much what you did.
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Yes, hopefully it’ll be their turn one day and they’ll be all like “Ooooohhhhh….” But you know, I’m taking a chance on that.
Obviously I completely sympathise with not wanting to make anything of it at the time.
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I’m exhausted and in a sweat Bronwyn and thankful to be old with old children. No wonder we didn’t travel much with them 🙂
I think you did a lot of really brilliant things. Because one of my fortes, or so I think , is humor, and I am an extreme extrovert, I I might have stood at the front of the bus demanding all the teenagers attention. Then I would have gone on and on about how likely one of them would be throwing up shortly and the other would be wailing and really the only way to keep it from happening would be to sit beside them…or someone else could clean up the vomit…whatever they thought might be best…or I could sit on one of their laps that might work too. No movement? I would have gone one by one. Now that is crazy pushy and you have to be pretty comfortable in your skin to do it.
Wait…I would have added you just noticed one of them might have lice. They had it at school last year and…..you’re not sure….:).
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Do you know, this really hasn’t happened before. I think that’s one of the reasons I was so unprepared. But looking back, there are plenty of people who just don’t have the experience with kids and wouldn’t see why they needed to move over.
Maybe on the way through I could hand out plastic bags to the people seated next to the kids “in case they vomit” and just pat them encouragingly on the shoulder?
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Definitely not a bad idea. I am surprised they wouldn’t move. Good grief.
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It might fall under the heading of “sarcasm”, mind you. You’d have to cultivate the right good-humoured delivery.
I did once see a “very important” European politician (by his own description) shout loudly at the gate staff at an airport because his wife and he hadn’t been seated together for a slightly-less-than-two-hour flight across Europe.
Meanwhile others weren’t checked in yet, one girl was worried about a connecting flight- well, I could list out all the people standing there with more to worry about than having to briefly sit next to someone with whom they weren’t married, but I won’t. I will give you a picture of him banging on the desk shouting, “DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?” If you have to ask…
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Getting back to the original topic, though – I think they were genuinely clueless as the initial conversation wasn’t very clear and probably the first time they realised how badly the seating arrangement was working out was when I tapped the guy on the shoulder and offered to swap, after they’d complained. And by then they were too embarrassed to follow through.
Although I don’t think the woman was embarrassed, I think she genuinely was annoyed that I hadn’t simply solved the problem already by asking them nicely.
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I totally see that if it was two adults there is no reason to throw a fit no matter who one is. 🙂 Agreed one would have to be careful about the sarcasm. All in the delivery for sure.
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Well that was my take. I suppose the wife could have had a fear of flying or something but the carrying on didn’t do anything for him. Likewise, I understand that the backpackers didn’t want to be separated from their travelling companions, but in a contest between them and the young kids I think the young kids needed it more.
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I hope at least the island was really beautiful and it was all worth it 🙂 Must have been a stressful ride. Those other people on the bus were rude for not letting you sit next to the kids… Clearly they don’t have children, otherwise they would understand. I would have been really mad if someone told my kids to be quite after they wouldn’t let me sit close to them…. I think you were really patient with the handling of the situation.
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Long years of customer service experience dealing with clients in crisis. 🙂
I was thinking back as to whether I would have done the same thing before kids but no, I can name you several instances where I offered to swap seats with parents on buses/let them in front in the supermarket/etc – I just thought everyone knew. But then again I was the eldest of my family, so maybe I got a bit more practice that way?
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The island was beautiful, by the way. The kids really enjoyed the canoeing part – P had a bit of a go at paddling but the canoe guy was able to take over for the more challenging bits (and when he got tired of it).
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